Quotes from article by Remski about Shambhala

Survivors of an International Buddhist Cult Share Their Stories by MATTHEW REMSKI 

This is an article about Shambhala and Chogyam Trungpa.

"Trungpa’s personal doctor would cite liver disease from alcohol abuse as the cause of death."

"Trungpa’s kingdom presents less like an “enlightened society” than it does a longitudinal study of intergenerational abuse and of how thin the line between religion and cult can be."

"In a series of 1983 sermons, he compared the attainment of spiritual wisdom to the act of rape."

"...according to Hays, her job as a “spiritual wife” (traditionally a consort for ritualized sexual meditations) involved offering Trungpa bumps of cocaine, which she remembers his lieutenants pretending was either a secret ritual substance or vitamin D."

"“What Trungpa did,” says Liz Craig, “was create an environment for emotional and sexual harm in which nobody was accountable for their actions.” Craig worked as a nanny in Trungpa’s household. “If he’d been publicly violent, it would have been easier to identify him as harmful and Shambhala as a cult.”"

"Michal Bandac, now living in Germany, says that, in the 1980s, Shambhala adults introduced him to cocaine use when he was twelve."

"There was statutory rape going on all over the place.”

"Thomas Rich, had been having unprotected sex with an unknown number of men and women while being HIV positive."

"The legal entities that held Shambhala’s assets were dissolved to avoid liability."

"Between 1999 and 2018, Mipham’s restructuring helped Shambhala’s global membership grow from under 7,000 to 14,000. Members participated in programs and training at outposts around the world, drawing an annual revenue of $18 million (US) in North America alone."

"Mipham also moved to shield what were reputed to be the most mystical elements of his father’s teaching content behind a pay-wall."

"Through the summer and fall of 2017, stories about similar abuse ripped into other spiritual communities. In July, eight former attendants of the late Sogyal Rinpoche, a celebrated Buddhist teacher and the author of the bestselling Tibetan Book of Living and Dying, published an open letter describing decades of physical, sexual, and financial abuse by the religious leader."

I've quoted so much, read the article to get the rest. The fallout, and the inevitable copying of behavior, and how the survivors gained confidence to speak their truths. The efforts by Shambhala to get out from under these legacies is scary too. It will be hard to survive for a lineage with such a history. I don't have any books by him, but if I did, I would get rid of them. I visited the center once for a Wesak celebration. I would never enter a center now. There exist enough centers without such a history.

You could compare the legacy of Sangharakshita and the TBC with Chogyam Trungpa and Shambhala. Sangharakshita did experiment with sex, and there were others who took his example and copied it, throwing off the Christian taboo of sexuality. I feel like this cultic strain was snuffed out, and the organization talked about the Guardian article quite robustly. 

There was no substance abuse by Sangharakshita that I'm aware of. Supposedly he quite drinking wine with meals when he saw how much land was devoted to wine on his travels. The children in the organization were not groomed for anything to my knowledge. I remember seeing an article shaming a minister in the government for being a member and calling it a cult. There is the FWBO files, FWBO being the old name of the TBC.

I am not aware of any cultic behaviors by the council that took over from Subhuti. I'm not aware of any accusations about Subhuti. Feel free to comment with information.

I do know a fair amount of members resigned from the TBC as a result of reflecting on some of the revelations. The majority remained. I see online that more and more people are being ordained. There is no evidence that the TBC and order have been hit financially.

I feel like Sangharakshita's experiments with sexuality as a founder of an order, were more like Lama Surya Das. He did them, later people expressed they were not all positive, and they regretted them, and with Das, he got married, and with Sangharakshita he went celibate.

Reading about other sanghas and their struggles to grapple with the legacy of their former charismatic founders makes me sad. It seems to be a stage many new sanghas need to go through in America. Charismatic people are flawed and people who are not see as traditionally charismatic can seem so when they are the head of an organization. I tend to feel that TBC can survive. I wish them well. I'll keep my books and go on retreats at their centers. I feel like they have grown up and survived their scandal. 

Recommended is Sex and the Spiritual Teacher by Scott Edelstein. You never have to do anything you don't want to do and "spiritual teacher" isn't a license to rape. "Spirituality" isn't a license to forget common sense. I would say that consensual sex with a teacher needs to be closely monitored.

If you want to be completely safe, I'd say a Theravadan sangha has monks that have a vow of chastity, and that while I'm sure I could find a Theravadan sangha that had a sex scandal, I would argue that they are the safest if you are concerned about being sexually exploited.

I used to scoff at the idea that traditional sanghas with lineages, because I think lineage is a fairy tale. And they have less sexual misconduct. I believe that now. I think that's proven by the data.

I have no idea about the IMS householder Theravadan movement. I bet you could find someone who felt exploited by a teacher somewhere along the line, and Against The Stream and Noah Levine has come under scrutiny. The Dharma Bums of NYC and Josh Korda doesn't seem to be effected by it, to my knowledge. Just know there is a difference between Theravadan and IMS, though IMS gets its inspiration from Theravadan. 

Reginald Ray is another American founder of a sangha, The Dharma Ocean, which came out of Shambhala, and has accusations of abuse.

I have read Shoes Outside The Door about Richard Baker, and The Buddha from Brooklyn about Jetsunma Ahkon Lhamo.

I write this out of love for Buddhism, not to gossip negatively, but for the long term support of Buddhism in America. This is a painful growing process. In the end, I don't think meditating all the time is very sexy, and a good sangha will be less sexually oriented, even if they are trying to shake off Christian conditioning.

I am not free from sexual misconduct throughout my more than half a century of life. I am deeply sorry and regretful. I think about my misconduct every day. I can only hope to move forward every day trying to live the opposite of misconduct, which is to live with simplicity, stillness and contentment. 

More links

The first response as of today on Reddit r/Buddhism about Shambhala has a positive experience report on CT

1979 issue of Boulder Monthly with article by Merwin about being stripped naked with his girlfriend by Trungpa. 

The Bodhisattva Johnny Appleseed

 

John Chapman wandered America planting apple seeds. He wore rags and was not interested in show. He never married because he felt people were untrue. 

I've been thinking that as Buddhism moves into America, we need to convert the local heroes into Bodhisattvas for the cause. 

Archetypal knowledge is contradictory, personalities are not logical. One of the reasons Chapman planted seeds is because hard apple cider was seriously consumed in America. There is a Dionysian element to this ascetic. The ecstatic joy of the spiritual life.

I would love an artist to draw the following bodhisattvas: Johnny Appleseed, Paul Bunyan, Black Hawk, Geronimo, Paul Revere "The Dharma is coming, the Dharma is coming!", Casey Jones who kept the brakes on and died but saved others, in baseball cooperation, teamwork and skill, Tinker to Evers to Chance. Pancho Villa, Our Lady of Guadalupe or Joaquin Murrieta. Spiderman.

Johnny Appleseed was so land wealthy that he didn't even record some of the land he supposedly owned, and left it all to his sister. 

And when he realized mosquitos were flying into a fire he built for warmth, he put it out, thinking his discomfort wasn't important enough to snuff out the lives of mosquitos.

Check out this video about Johnny Appleseed.

A tiny North Indian statue of Buddha found in a Swedish Viking's grave (c. 600AD)

 

Moving away from the partisan pretzel logic to explore spirituality

 In "How Faith Shapes My Politics" in the NY Times 9/24/2020, David Brooks writes:

"These realizations transformed my spiritual life: awareness of God’s love, participation in grace, awareness that each person is made in God’s image. Faith offered an image of a way of being, an ultimate allegiance."

He also writes:

"What finally did the trick was glimpses of infinite goodness. Secular religions are really good at identifying some evils, like oppression, and building a moral system against them. Divine religions are primarily oriented to an image of pure goodness, pure loving kindness, holiness. In periodic glimpses of radical goodness — in other people, in sensations of the transcendent — I felt, as Wendell Berry put it, “knowledge crawl over my skin.” The biblical stories from Genesis all the way through Luke and John became living presences in my life."

I think it's cool he uses the phrase "loving kindness"

For me the conversion to Buddhism helped me see, what I imagine in my limited spirituality, that god is the transcendental, what is beyond conditions, and unspeakable, unquantifiable, and a kind of feeling I get when I can see deeper after lots of meditation. That's probably not what spirituality is, maybe it's more the striving for the largest appropriate perspective. Who knows.

The article is about how absurd it is for a candidate for the Supreme Court to say that "faith" will not color their decisions. It colors everything you do. 

But in partisan America, there are two kinds of faith. One is a wise kindness based one. And the other is for fortitude when you're not being kind, to stand on your convictions about the limited use of the federal government, that thinks it's alright to do whatever to achieve your means, and that it's quite alright to be a selfish power hungry nihilist without a shred of insight or integrity. I may be speaking in a partisan way.

I'm trying to move away from the above duality, and pretzel logic. I'm trying to focus on pushing myself to the greatest depth, hight or whatever up or into metaphors you wish. I'm trying to accept the imperfections of the world as working grounds to challenge me. I continue to be firmly appreciative of everyone's freedom to choose their own spirituality, and to tolerate different personalities, cultures, genders, sex, race and class.

It takes a while but I'm finding some songs to capture the moment. 

Also

Quote: AN2: iv, 6, abridged

 

Some Reddit answers to why Buddhism is no longer in India.

 

I found these interesting.

• Buddhism originated in India but today, most of India is either Hindu or Muslim. Conversely, Buddhism is very common in East Asian countries such as Japan. What were some of the key factors that lead to the decline of Buddhism in India and its rise in East Asia?

• /u/troymcclurehere answers Why did Buddhism slowly decline in India and Hinduism flourish?

• /u/iitii answers The Indian subcontinent was the birthplace of Buddhism. The teaching of Buddha found lots of success in foreign lands such as China, Myanmar, and Indochina. Yet in its homeland, it is currently a very small minority. How could this be?

• /u/JimeDorje answers What exactly happened to Buddhism in India? How did it go from being an effective State Religion for nearly a millennium to an also-ran by the time of India's Muslim Invasions in the early 1100s?

• /u/SudarshanIyer answers What exactly happened to Buddhism in India? How did it go from being an effective State Religion for nearly a millennium to an also-ran by the time of India's Muslim Invasions in the early 1100s?

They were a response to this article that asserts it was SHANKARACHARYA's fault. The response to this article is found on Reddit.

 

New Yorker article on Harari

I read Sapiens and found it interesting, provocative. Then I listened to an article about Harari from the New Yorker from February. It takes 68 minutes to listen to, and is quite a profile of Harari. Turns out he's into Insight meditation. And he convinced the president of Israel to have a vegetarian day in whatever their equivalent to a White House is, which most people find amazing. While he claims there is no scientific evidence for liberal humanism, Steven Pinker thinks he is one. Saying there is no scientific evidence might be a way of saying it is a value. He plays the non-political, but he's clearly of our ilk. He goes off on a retreat every year. He doesn't think it's practical to imagine everyone is going to meditate because he knows how hard it is. He supposedly meditates for an hour every day. He's got a sweet deal as a professor, he doesn't have to do anything but teach 3 classes one semester. He's learned to create the minimum of expectations in his life. Seems pretty cool. 

Dionysus

Bacchus Uncovered is on YouTube at the moment. I love Bettany Hughes' work. They found archaeological stuff about Dionysus in London. He's androgynous and transgender. "Dionysus is brilliantly difficult to pigeonhole," and, "the party god supreme." His largest party was Dionysia. They would play the drinking game Kottabos. If you miss the vessel, you have to take a drink. The 4 day festival would end at the Theater of Dionysus. Euripides' The Bacchae was a play that survives into our times, that would have been performed at the theater (see below). The expert Hughes talks to suggests that the theme of the play is that you need to accept the coexistence of the opposites.

I'm not sure how often I've experienced ecstacy. Hughes goes to the island of Skyros to celebrate a goat festival. It is celebrated at the start of the spring February 14-21. One feature of the celebration is people who dress up like the ancient ones. The masks are made out of premature sheep who died. Then you personify the god Dionysus. Hughes suggests that the ritual may go back more than 25 centuries. The worship of Dionysus predates the classical ancient Greek times by a thousand years. 3k ago are the first references to Dionysus in cuneiform. 

Hughes goes to 20 miles south of Tbilisi Georgia to a site called Gadachrili Gora, to understand communal drinking where they think grapes were first cultivated 8K years ago. (Read the scientific paper)

Early drawing about the wine have a stance that can be described as worshipful. Early humans perhaps thought that wine brought them closer to the spiritual world. 

She discusses symposia, where philosophical ideas were exchanged, and drinking occured. A prayer was said to Dionysus in the ritual. 

Hughes reads Livy's account of women's Bacchus debauchery. Some of the women followers of Spartacus were said to be infused with fervor of Bacchus. The Romans outlawed the worship of Bacchus, unless you have the specific permission of the senate. This cult empowered women and challenged the patriarchy. They were concerned with the numbers and the organization. They turned Bacchus into agents of control. The Romans used wine as a conquering tool to pacify conquered lands.

With the advent of Christianity and the clash with paganism. Did Christianity co-op the drinking of the wine as a blood of Christ. There are many similarities between the two deities. Bacchus was reborn after being killed by the Titans. Bacchus was incorporated into the iconography of Christ. The baby Bacchus was cradled by Hermes in one famous fresco. There is a halo around his head. Others kneeled around to pay their respect to the baby Bacchus. The father is Zeus, so they worship the father and the son. I couldn't find a picture, and I didn't take a screenshot. Jesus says, "I'm the true vine." which is clearly a reference to Bacchus. Thus the cult of Bacchus is squashed by the controlling ways of Christianity. Which makes me wonder, wouldn't it be amazing if we could have free play with our spirituality. That might even be what America was founded on. 

In the 18th century there was a revival in the age of Enlightenment, when people would go on a grand tour. (Scholarly paper). A fellow named Hamilton built a temple to Bacchus in England in Surry. It was a bit neutered, being enthusiastic wasn't a virtue in England at the time. 

Bacchus was a traveler. The East India company building dug up a Bacchus on a lion, which symbolized Bacchus conquering India. The English ended up conquering India. William Jones, a celebrated scholar from the times, suggests there is a parallel between Dionysus and Rama. Rama was born in the wild on the side of a mountain like Bacchus. Both are traveler gods who conquered India. There are other parallels. Byron and Shelly read his writings. Nietzsche took up this idea. In The Birth of Tragedy, he celebrates the Dionysian, intoxication and the irrational. 

This was adopted in the counterculture of the 60s/70s. This lead to Dionysus in '69, which has a copy of the play that you can watch today. There was a apollonian push back for order. You can almost see these two forces battling it out today in Portland and Kenosha, Minneapolis and New York.

Drug policies today are firmly in the control of Apolonia, ordered and rational. There are dangers in denying the shadow. There is also danger in letting go completely. Hughes wants to be in touch with the wild animal side, but with enough control so you don't hurt others, or yourself. 

What an amazing documentary! I've always wanted to know more about Dionysus. 

Reading Wikipedia I learned more: Dionysus is one Greek God I could worship. His resume is the god of the grape-harvest, winemaking and wine, of fertility, orchards and fruit, vegetation, insanity, ritual madness, religious ecstasy, festivity and theatre in ancient Greek religion and myth. Bacchus is the Roman name. When you get into a frenzy celebrating him you become a bakkheia or Maenad. Hughes brushed past Dionysus the Erect. As Eleutherios ("the liberator"), his wine, music and ecstatic dance free his followers from self-conscious fear and care, and subvert the oppressive restraints of the powerful. He represents a chthonic or underworld aspect. Chthonic might be related to Jung's shadow. Cthulhu is the name of the monsters in H.P. Lovecraft. 

Dionysus is the god of epiphany. I almost feel like there is a dialectic about him, he contains many opposites, maybe the spirit of solving a koan. 

I don't really think drugs are the spiritual route, but once in a blue moon doesn't hurt, in moderation.

Worshiping in a pantheistic way is about local gods who provide favors. The Greek gods were up to shenanigans, and it was the humans who dealt with the fate of their hijinks. It explained the quirky way things never end up the way you want them to. I'm not sure if there's a better explanation that circumstances, but often they are dark. In the darkness we find wonder.

The negative destructive side is perhaps something you see in toddlers and preschoolers. While I watched the documentary and composed this post, I was interrupted a lot by my child.

Links

The Triumph of Bacchus

god is love?

"Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind" by Yuval Noah Harari:

"According to the New Testament, shortly before the crucifixion a woman anointed Christ with precious oil worth 300 denarii. Jesus’ disciples scolded the woman for wasting such a huge sum of money instead of giving it to the poor, but Jesus defended her, saying that ‘The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me’ (Mark 14: 7)."

I've read that god is love stuff was put in later to balance out the eye for an eye stuff. Of course you can choose to follow whatever god you want. If I had to, it would be god of love. It's Amitabha in Buddhism.

My most popular post on Reddit turns out to be a quote from Harari.

I quote him a fair amount on my other main blog.

What will American Dhamra be?

As Buddhism moves through countries, it develops a unique flavor in each country. It is meant to be that way because of conditionality. People will use the teachings in different ways. 

In the end, the path in my opinion is about meditating, being ethical, building community and receiving the support of the ancient teachings through books and sangha. There is an essential immutable path, and there is some flexibility in the path. We must each take individual responsibility for our spiritual lives, and our journey. Support is wonderful. 

What will America's contribution be? Will it be a more secular version of the Dharma? Will it be a more psychological version of the Dharma that has hitherto been present in the world? 

A lay Theravada movement seems to be one innovation. IMS teaches the teachings without requiring one being a monk. Perhaps it's because Americans don't have the free lunch deal for spiritual seekers.

There are people who don't like the "self-help" superficial version of the Dhamra. It might not be superficial it might just be an early version of the Dharma. There's a part of me that thinks it's OK to use it as self help. There's a part of me that wants the Dharma to be more than that. Of course moving towards enlightenment is the ultimate self help, so I'm not going to get too hung up on the terms. 

People don't like that secular Dharma doesn't have a tradition. Stephen Batchelor has not created a sangha that is sweeping across America. His sensibilities and his writing have inspired a lot of people to practice in the Zens, Tibetans, Insights and Theravada traditions. There is however a kind of secular movement online. I don't know if there are any sanghas really. I bet there are.

Traditional sanghas have fewer scandals and seem to be more firmly embedded in the tradition. Cults and hooey can dabble with Buddhism to provide some cover, but ultimately vere away. Beware of cults and people who seem untethered by the community of elders. I think it's OK to question the tradition

I honestly don't know about the Pure Land. While a wildly popular version of Buddhism, I don't have any friend who practice Pure Land, unfortunately. I've read some books. I try to read up on Reddit. I try to include Pure Land in my thoughts. I hope to visit a sangha some day.

I like Amitabha and mantras, but I don't put much stock in my reincarnation. I see my kind of consciousness in the writings of others, and no doubt think I have a unique meme set in my noodle, and a unique set of circumstances, though I can see commonalities if I want to. I have no knowledge on consciousness being transferred between lives of homo sapiens. I respect the ideas of reincarnation as local extensions of pratityasamutpada and Hinduism and other religious ideas. I respect the lineage of teachers. I think the community of elders is nothing to sniff at. 

I feel reborn every day when I wake up, after losing consciousness. I know the metaphor of flame being passed from one candle wick to another. Sometimes I think chanting a mantra would be easier than meditating and pushing to grok the Dharma.

Spending 17 years working to integrate the Dharma into my life as a householder, a worldling. I work to be inspired by going forth to the three jewels. I read the 3 main pure land sutras, and listen to them being read to me. How can I strive to create a pure land in my life?--Is a thought that crosses my mind occasionally. I'm ambivalent about integrating it into my practice, curious and wary. There are times when I want to simplify my practice, and there are times when I'm more open and seeking outside inspiration. 

Seeking to resolve oppositional tendencies too quickly, or even feel I have to resolve contradictions. I do believe we are large, we contain the multitudes, and that consistency can be the bugbear of constricted minds. I'm not one big mush pile of chaos all the time, I do seek integration and simplicity. I seek to integrate my shadow and resolve my personal issues, so that I can practice the Dharma effectively. I seek to effectively go to refuge to the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. I am open to feedback, and I also have a lot of confidence in my own will and practice, and don't need external validation to continue. There is a sense that I am in self sustaining practice, regardless of circumstances.

And as always, I go for practice with everyone, and hope to be supportive and helpful. Articulating my own personal journey in a blog is pretty pathetic, but I still do hope to support others anyway.

Quote

“The story of the luxury trap carries with it an important lesson. Humanity’s search for an easier life released immense forces of change that transformed the world in ways nobody envisioned or wanted. Nobody plotted the Agricultural Revolution or sought human dependence on cereal cultivation. A series of trivial decisions aimed mostly at filling a few stomachs and gaining a little security had the cumulative effect of forcing ancient foragers to spend their days carrying water buckets under a scorching sun.“

Sapiens by Harari 

Engaged Buddhism Resources

Wikipedia defines Engaged Buddhism as "seeking ways to apply the insights from meditation practice and dharma teachings to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice."

"Prominent figures in the movement include Robert Aitken Roshi, Joanna Macy, Gary Snyder, Alan Senauke, Sulak Sivaraksa, Daisaku Ikeda, Maha Ghosananda, Sylvia Wetzel, Joan Halifax, Tara Brach, Taigen Dan Leighton, Ken Jones, Jan Willis. Bhante Sujato and Bhikkhu Bodhi.^"

I would also add a recent article I saw about a nun confronting misogyny in Buddhism in Myanmar.

Hopefully I can add more resources as I go along.

Resources:

US Inst. of Peace Course offerings

Past Blog posts:

Book Review

The Middle Way

I've always thought that coming to the middle way from asceticism must be very different from coming to the middle way from hedonism. Coming from hedonism, the middle way might be indistinguishable from asceticism. 

The middle way is specific to the space between asceticism and hedonism. It rose out of the Buddha's nearly dying from asceticism. He turned to meditation, and found the way.

There are many things you could deprive yourself of in asceticism. Food is one. Sleep is another. The goal is to train oneself to not be reactive. Today I tried to not eat, though I drank water and coffee. I buckled after 16 hours, 8 hours short of 24 hours. 

Reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari he discusses the ancestral past. He is careful to point out that there is little known and that speculation is more about what we think than what happened. But he talks about in the past you would come upon a fig tree, full of fruit. You'd better eat as much as you can before the monkeys get it. You're unlikely to be able to store or come back to it.

The ancestral past would not have been about materialism because moving often would curb that. And there was little if any food storage. Maybe. So you gorged when you had the chance. (Agriculture flattened out the variety, and meant more work.) Humans are prone to gorging. When there is abundance, like there is in modern society, there becomes the problem of obesity. When you're young you can eat all you want and not gain. But the decades pass by and I find myself a big pile of mushy goo. Fasting is seen as the way to counter this. Surely we had lot of fasting in our ancestral past. 

In The Millionaire Next Door, the author points out that immigrants have an easier path towards living below their means and investing the surplus. Surprisingly Native Americans have more millionaires by percentage of population. The stereotype is a poor reservation. The poverty allows for living below your means. 

Chipping away at one's quality of life isn't easy or a fun project. It's like celibacy, it's not often talked about. Celibacy is just another form of depriving oneself, not reacting to the game of grasping at pleasure and pushing away pain. What would be the point of it, there must be some gains to doing such a project. 

Just as a lying politician can promise things s/he doesn't come through on, the individual wishes for more control about the world, but finds herself or himself coming up short. We are puny. Controlling yourself is an unattractive project, but it might be the thing you can get the most control over. Materialism says you can have it all, just buy things. The happiness movement says you deserve to be happy. We are relentlessly seeking to improve, get more. 

Spiritual materialism is when we go see all the famous teachers. Retreats at amazing retreat centers. The upper middle way is joked about. 

The image of men smashing their heads in The Holy Grail is funny. You don't hear much about finding hidden hairshirts on people these days. Asceticism has gone out of style. There are still monastics, though the numbers are decreasing. Buddhist communities are moving into unused Christian communities in the west as 200 years of exposure to this eastern religion take root.

There are many cautions about being too willful, and the parable of the lute strings. Asceticism is seen as an adolescent defense against wanting things in modern psychology. I can hear Donna Meagle and Tommy Haverford on Parks and Recreation saying, "treat yourself."

Then there are stories to the contrary. Charlie Parker practicing his saxophone 11-14 hours a day. One of the defining traits of Kobe Bryant was his working hard in the weight room. Bobby Sands hunger strike. I know some monks who were forest monks for 5 years. Ajahn Mun is one of my heroes, he was tough Forest Monk. There are also bodhisattvas like Samantha Powers who devote their life to trying to decrease genocides in the world.  

So this was just an exploration of asceticism, the middle way and hedonism. I am pushing myself to be more ascetic, which really is moving more towards the middle way.

I've been thinking that the protestant work ethic can be quite ascetic, and that having children can be quite self abnegating. Even Hillary Clinton complained about how boring it was to raise a child. 

Vegan memes